listes drukhari au d3 beta

PLAYER : Arkgnagar (Antoine Auzoux)
TEAM : Les Manants des Sources
FACTION : Drukhari
TOTAL POINT DE COMMANDEMENT : 9
RENFORT : 0
ARMY TOTAL : 2000


DETACHMENT : BATAILLON *Kabale du Crâne Ecorché* (+3 points de commandement)
QG1 : [Seigneur de Guerre] Archon (1*72), lame dessicante (4), pistolet disloqueur (10), Relique : La Lame
Djinn, Warlord Trait : Haine éternelle. [86]
QG2 : [Archon (1*72), lame dessicante (4), pistolet disloqueur (10) [86]
TROUPES 1 : Kabalite Warriors (5*6) [30]
TROUPES 2 : Kabalite Warriors (5*6) [30]
TROUPES 3 : Kabalite Warriors (5*6) [30]
ELITES 0: Sslyth [27]
ELITES 0: Sslyth [27]
ELITES 0: Lhamaean [15]
ELITES 0: Lhamaean [15]
ELITES 1: Mandrakes (8*16) [128]
ATTAQUE RAPIDE 1: Scourges (5*12): fusils disrupteurs (4*,Solarite (0), carabine éclateuse (0) [92]
SOUTIEN 1 : Ravager (1*80) : lance de ténèbres (3*20) [140]
SOUTIEN 2 : Ravager (1*80) : lance de ténèbres (3*20) [140]
AERONEF 1 : Razorwing Jetfighter (1*105) : missiles de razorwing (0), canon éclateur (1*10), canons
désintégrateurs (2*15) [145]
TRANSPORT 1 : Venom (1*55) : canons éclateurs (2*10) [75]
TRANSPORT 2 : Venom (1*55) : canons éclateurs (2*10) [75]
TRANSPORT 3 : Venom (1*55) : canons éclateurs (2*10) [75]
TRANSPORT 3 : Raider (1*65) : canon désintégrateur (1*15), éperon énergétique (1*1) [81]
TOTAL DETACHEMENT : 1297


DETACHMENT : PATROUILLE *Culte de la Lame Maudite*
QG 3 : Succubus (1*50) : Gantelets Hydres (1*4), Drogues de Combat : Métadrénaline, [54]
TROUPES 4 : Wyches (9* : pistolets éclateurs (7*0), lame d’Hekatarii (7*0), filet barbelé & empaleur (1*5),
Hekatrix (0) ; épée énergétique (1*4), pistolet éclateur (1*0), Drogues de Combat : Crucifiant [81]
TOTAL DETACHEMENT : 135


DETACHMENT : FER DE LANCE *Côteries des Prophètes Charnels *(+ 1 point de commandement)
QG 4 : Urien Rakarth : [90]
ELITES 2 : Grotesques (6*32) : gantelet de chair (6*3), hachoir monstrueux (6*0) [210]
SOUTIEN 3 : Talos (1*75) : macro-scalpels (2*4), fusils disrupteurs (2* [99]
SOUTIEN 4 : Talos (1*75) : macro-scalpels (2*4), fusils disrupteurs (2* [99]
SOUTIEN 5 : Cronos (1*65) : Sonde mentale (1*5) [70]
TOTAL DETACHEMENT : 568

----------------

Team : Arverngers
Player 2 : Sharrik
Faction : Drukhari / Harlequins
Total Army points : 2 000
Total Reinforcement points : 0
Total command points : 9
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
== Battalion Detachment (+5 Command Points) (1245) <Prophets of Flesh>==
HQ1 : Urien Rakarth [Warlord – Diabolical soothsayer] – 90
HQ2 : Haemonculus (70), Stinger pistol (5) [Relic – The vexator mask] – 75
Troop 1 : 4 Wracks (4x9), 1 Acothyst (9) – 45
Troop 2 : 4 Wracks (4x9), 1 Acothyst (9) – 45
Troop 3 : 4 Wracks (4x9), 1 Acothyst (9) – 45
Elite 1 : 9 Grotesques (9x32), 9 Monstrous Cleaver (0), 9 Flesh Gauntlets (9x3) – 315
Elite 2 : 9 Grotesques (9x32), 9 Monstrous Cleaver (0), 9 Flesh Gauntlets (9x3) – 315
Elite 3 : 9 Grotesques (9x32), 9 Monstrous Cleaver (0), 9 Flesh Gauntlets (9x3) – 315

== Outrider Detachment (+1 Command Point) (755) <The Soaring Spite : Serpent’s Blood>==
HQ3 : Shadowseer [Twilight Pathways, Fog of Dreams, Smite] – 125
FA 1 : 5 Skyweavers (5x30), 5 Haywire Canon (5x15) – 225
FA 2 : 5 Skyweavers (5x30), 5 Haywire Canon (5x15) – 225
FA 3 : 4 Skyweavers (4x30), 4 Haywire Canon (4x15) – 180

---------------

+ Team : Cartel de Trolls
+ Player 4 : Adrien "Le Gob" Gehant
+ Factions : Drukhari
+ Total Army Points : 2 000
+ Total Reinforcement points : 0
+Total Command points : 14
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

== Spearhead Detachement - Drukharii Kabal of The Black Hearth == [447pts] +1CP

HQ1 : Archon (70), Venom Blade (2) - [72pts] [Warlord : Labyrinthine Cunning]
HS1 : Ravager (80), 3 Desintegrators (45) - [125pts]
HS2 : Ravager (80), 3 Desintegrators (45) - [125pts]
HS3 : Ravager (80), 3 Desintegrators (45) - [125pts]

== Bataillon Detachement - Drukharii "Cult of The Red Grief" == [541pts] +5CP

HQ2 : Succubus (50), Shardnet & Impaler (5) - [55pts] [Painbringer]
HQ3 : Succubus (50), Shardnet & Impaler (5) - [55pts] [Combat Drug]
Troop1 : 9 Wychs (72), Shardnet & Impaler (5) - [77pts] [Grave Lotus]
Troop2 : 8 Wychs (64), Shardnet & Impaler (5) - [69pts] [Hypex]
Troop3 : 5 Wychs (40), Shardnet & Impaler (5) - [45pts] [Adrenalight]
Transport1 : Raider (65), Desintegrator (15) - [80pts]
Transport2 : Raider (65), Desintegrator (15) - [80pts]
Transport3 : Raider (65), Desintegrator (15) - [80pts]

== Bataillon Detachement - Drukharii "The Prophets of Flesh" == [1012pts] +5CP

HQ4 : Urien Rakharth - [90pts]
HQ5 : Haemonculus (70), Hexrifle (5), Electrocorosive Whips (6), Relic : The Vexator Mask - [81pts]
Troop4 : 9 Wracks (81), Hexrifle (5) - [86pts]
Troop5 : 5 Wracks - [45pts]
Troop6 : 5 Wracks - [45pts]
Elite1 : 5 Grotesques (160), 5 Flesh Gauntlets (15) - [175pts]
Elite2 : 9 Grotesques (288), 9 Flesh Gauntlets (27) - [315pts]
Elite3 : 5 Grotesques (160), 5 Flesh Gauntlets (15) - [175pts]

-------------------

+Team : Fils du Warp
+Player 2 : Franck “Zig” Fetis
+Faction Played : Drukhari / Harlequins
+Command Points : 10 - 2
+Total Army : 2000
+Reinforcement Point : 0
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

== Outriders Detachment – Harlequin “Soaring Spite” == (906) +1CP

HQ1 : [Warlord] Troupe Master (1x70), Harlequin’s Kiss (7), Relic : The Starmist Raiment [77] [Warlord Trait : A Foot in the Future]
Troup1 : 11 Troupe (65+6x13), 5 Harlequin’s Kiss (35), 1 Harlequin Caress (7), Harlequin’s Embrace (6) [191]
E1 : Solitaire (84), Harlequin’s Kiss (7), Harlequin’s Caress (7), Relic (-1CP) : Cegorach’s Rose [98]
FA1 : 4 Shyweaver (60+2x30), 4 Haywire Cannon (60) [180]
FA2 : 4 Shyweaver (60+2x30), 4 Haywire Cannon (60) [180]
FA3 : 4 Shyweaver (60+2x30), 4 Haywire Cannon (60) [180]

== Battalion detachment - Drukhari “Kabal of the Black Heart” == (689) +5CP

HQ2 : Archon (70), Huskblade (6) [76]
HQ3 : Archon (70), Huskblade (6), Relic (-1CP) : Writ of the Living Muse [76]
Troup2 : 9 Kabalite Warriors (30+6x4), Sybarite (0) [54]
Troup3 : 9 Kabalite Warriors (30+6x4), Sybarite (0) [54]
Troup4 : 9 Kabalite Warriors (30+6x4), Sybarite (0) [54]
HS1 : Ravager (80), 3 Disintegrator Cannon (45) [125]
HS2 : Ravager (80), 3 Disintegrator Cannon (45) [125]
HS3 : Ravager (80), 3 Disintegrator Cannon (45) [125]

== Air Wing Detachment – Drukhari “Kabal of the Black Heart” == (405) +1CP

Flyer1 : Razorwing Jetfighter (105), 2 Disintegrator Cannon (30) [135]
Flyer2 : Razorwing Jetfighter (105), 2 Disintegrator Cannon (30) [135]
Flyer3 : Razorwing Jetfighter (105), 2 Disintegrator Cannon (30) [135]


-------------------

"D3"?

le d3 est le circuit qualificatif de 3° division pour sélectionner l'équipe de france ETC;

On voit de plus en plus de grotesques, et c'est bien normal !

Team Grotesques > Team Talos

ils ont réussi à rendre le talos jouable, et en plus bourrin ? faut vraiment que je regarde les règles... peut être qu'enfin mes talos accumulés compulsivement serviront. En tous cas, heureusement qu'il y en a encore pour causer stratégie ici, ça me fait des gens sur qui pomper allègrement ^^

Xray a écrit:

On voit de plus en plus de grotesques, et c'est bien normal !

-"Psst, eh, pst, m'sieur GW! C'est le moment de sortir des Grotesques plastiques! Clin d’œil, clin d’œil!..."

Haema, parle plus fort, GW est très dur - de la feuille.
Mais s'il est trop sourd, quelques créatures Dirz de Confrontation 3 rendent très bien sur une table ...

A la fois le grotesque ça tank tellement que bon... j'adore le talos hein mais pour avoir plus de pv qui font plus d'attaques et, de ce fait, plus de dégâts, grotesque >> talos haut la main... néanmoins le talos n'est pas à jeter et reste super fun à jouer je trouve ^^

Comparer un talos et un grotesque, c'est comme comparer un attaquand et un défenceur en foot, pas le même rôle sur le terrain.
c'est simple, les listes talos, avec haywire, ne sont la que pour aller taper de l'ik, les listes grotesque et les listes talos n'ont théoriquement pas le même rôle en team.

Les stats les gens les staaats...

Citation :

Shooting

A Talos has better shooting than a grotesque. It just does. Haywire blasters are awesome, and a Talos can pretty reliably put out 1.2 Mortal wounds/turn in shooting to vehicles, which is pretty solid considering it costs under 100 points.

Assault

Assault is where things tend to get more interesting.

I'm going to be assuming the Talosi are equipped with Macroscalpels, because that just seems to be the standard, and compare 3 Grotesques to 1 Talosi. With Macroscalpels and Haywire Blasters on the Talos that's 105 points vs 99 points respectively, which is comparable.

Against GEQ

Against GEQ Grotesques have 2 options. Flesh Gauntlets or Monstrous Cleavers.

Flesh Gauntlets from 3 Grotesques will do 1.3 Mortal Wounds, and 3.5 unsaved wounds; for a total of 4.8 killed Guardsmen.

From turn 3 onwards will deal 4.4 unsaved wounds and 1.6 Mortal wounds for a total of 6 slain Guardsmen.

Monstrous Cleavers will do 6.6 unsaved wounds.

From turn 3 onwards Monstrous Cleavers will do 8.3 unsaved wounds, for a total of 8 slain Guardsmen.

Monstrous Cleavers are clearly superior for killing GEQ.

A Talos with two Macroscalpels will kill 3.3 guardsmen. Bringing a chain flail reduces your output against guardsmen by less than wound.

From turn 3 onwards a Talos will kill 4.1 guardsmen in assault/turn.

Playing Prophets of Flesh and bringing Urien Rakarth along will only benefit Grotesques against GEQ. Talosi are already wounding them on 2s, so that would stretch the gap between their output even further.

Grotesques are the obvious choice for clearing out T3 infantry. They literally double the output of the Talos in Melee. Haywire Blasters aren't meant for killing guardsmen, but if we were to take that output into account we could add approximately one slain guardsmen/turn for the Talosi, but Macroscalpels still couldn't compete with Monstrous Cleavers.

Against MEQ

Flesh Gauntlets for Grotesques will deal 1.3 Mortal wounds and 1.7 unsaved wounds for a total of 3 slain marines or 1.5 slain Primaris Marines.

Monstrous Cleavers deal 4.4 unsaved wounds for 4.4 slain marines or 2.2 slain Primaris Marines.

Talosi Macroscalpels deal 1.7 unsaved wounds at 2 damage each, for 1.7 Slain Marines, or 1.7 slain Primaris Marines.

Bringing Urien Rakarth doesn't benefit Grotesques against T4, but it allows the Talosi to wound on 2s instead of 3s, bringing them up to 2.2 slain Marines, and 2.2 slain Primaris Marines.

Urien Rakarth puts 1 Talosi exactly on Par with 3 Grotesques against Primaris marines, but markedly behind on single wound infantry.

Against TEQ

Against TEQ the numbers would be exactly the same as they are against Primaris Marines, because neither Grotesques nor Talosi have enough AP to bring them down to their Invuln saves anyway.

Against T5

Flesh Gauntlets will deal 3.3 wounds before saves against anything T5, and 1.3 Mortal wounds against anything that isn't a vehicle.

Monstrous Cleavers will deal 5 wounds before saves, with AP-2.

Talosi will deal 2.6 wounds at -2 AP for 5.2 damage.

T5 is where Talosi start to really pull ahead.

Against T6

Flesh Gauntlets will still deal their 1.3 MW if the target isn't a vehicle. It's down to 2.6 wounds though before saves, with no AP.

Monstrous Cleavers will deal 3.3 wounds at -2 AP.

Talosi with Macroscalpels will still deal 2.6 wounds for 5.2 damage.

Against T7

Against T7 the Grotesques deal the same damage as they did against T6.

If Urien Rakarth is around, the Talosi also deal the same damage as they did against T6.

If Urien Rakarth isn't around, the Talos deal 2 wounds at AP-2 for 4 damage, which is still more than the Grotesques do by about 30%.

Against T8

Grotesques do the same damage as they did against T6.

Talos deal 1.3 wounds at -2 AP for 2.6 damage. This is less than Grotesques would deal, but with Urien Rakarth around Talosi would still be putting out 4 wounds against T8, and also at this kind of toughness most enemies are Vehicles, which are then susceptible to the MW output of Haywire Blasters.

Toughness

Talosi are obviously tougher as individual models, but Grotesques have more wounds. Talos can survive more fire before losing any effectiveness, and less weapons would meaningfully threaten them. Grotesques survive more damage before being completely removed, but having 3x as many models is almost like giving them a degrading profile. Talosi can also be healed by stratagems, which my understanding is Grotesques cannot.

I believe taking more damage before losing effectiveness makes Talos a more efficient firemagnet because they need to commit more weapons to lowering our output.

Talosi also have fly, so can fall back and still shoot without needing stratagems, which is nice.

Conclusion

I love Talos, and generally I bring them over Grotesques. I kind of thought I'd come into this essay and do the math to prove that I'm right, and that they are better.

The real conclusion I came to is that which is better depends entirely on what you want them to do. Grotesques can put out some serious hurt on single wound models in ways Talos just can't. A balanced covens list would probably need to include both so that your Grotesques could clear the way to tougher targets for the Talos so they don't get bogged down as hard.

I believe the MW output of Haywire blasters for Talos is better than Grotesque MW output, because it doesn't require you to use your strictly inferior weapon, even though the MW output is effectively the same point for point. It can also be used more reliably since it's a 24" range.

I think in general, take the units that you have a job for.

If you're playing with a couple big blobs of Reavers with Blasters and a Black Heart Spearhead, bring Grotesques so that you can chop down infantry in droves and let the blasters and dissies kill everything heavy.

If you're playing a Kabals with a lot of venoms and splinterfire bring Talosi for killing the vehicles that your poison only wounds on 6.

Hope this was helpful guys.

Cheers

En esperant que ça permette d'amener quelque chose au débat

De mon avis, l'empreinte sur table de 10 grotesques étant indéniablement plus importante que 3 talos pour un meilleur ratio pv/pts et un tanking strictement comparable, il a la préférence des joueurs dans le meta ETC-FR actuel.

Dans le meta fr oui, mais avec l'interdiction des fep t1, et le couvert auto via stratageme pour celui qui joue en second, les 21 pv endu 7, 2+ 4++ 6+++ d'un talos sont appréciable, sans compter la menace qu'ils représente t1 avec leur haywire, et la possibilité de bouger juste apès, chose impossible avec les grotesque.

Et pour finir, je ne dis pas que les talos sont plus fort, je dis que les 2 ont 2 rôles différents.

Bah, moi j'ai toujours dis que les grotesques étaient plus forts.

A cout en point égal, les grotesques seront plus létaux et plus résistants dans 90% des configs, et notamment dans les configs les plus courantes.
Le seul avantage des talos c'est leurs tirs, et il est franchement minable.

C'est même pas tellement une question de rôle, même pour casser du gros le grotesque fait mieux le taf.

Après il y a un truc que j'ai oublié : Les grotesques se font complètement bloqués dés qu'il y a 3-4 + avions en façe. Les Talos roulent dessus eux.

Oui... et non. Cela depend contre quoi. Le pavé au dessus est tres clair.

Perso je prefere les talos, un melange de style et de hobby, meme si les gro sont legerement plus meta a l’heure actuelle.

Apres la meta,... C’est comme la mode

Je ne suis pas nécessairement d'accord avec le pavé sur tous les points non plus, je trouve qu'il la joue trop "balanced".

Clairement il y a des MU ou les talos sont meilleurs. Mais c'est match up sont pas fréquents.